tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7189482.post112223526180596811..comments2024-03-26T21:46:56.291-07:00Comments on The ZehnKatzen Times: [sundial_life] Random Personal ThoughtsSamuel John Kleinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00514541030057763303noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7189482.post-1122403208097834552005-07-26T11:40:00.000-07:002005-07-26T11:40:00.000-07:00First thing, thanks for the compliment. I'm happy ...First thing, thanks for the compliment. I'm happy that you are enjoying the ongoing blab.<BR/><BR/>To your question:I doubt, at least in so far as I'm aware, that 17th and T in 1893 is what we call today NE 17th Ave and Tillamook (which is what I think you meant by "Tillamuck").<BR/><BR/>Based on what I know about the development of Portland (while it's better than some and less good than others), the most likely possiblilty is that spot is what is in what we now call NW Portland.<BR/><BR/>This area was originally laid out as alphabetically-lettered and sequenced streets crossing numbered streets (Avenues as numbers only dates from about 1930). In the Great Renaming, notable local people's names got applied to them. Therefore, A for Ankeny (Capt. Ankeny), B for Burnside (David Burnside), C for Couch (Capt. Couch) &c.<BR/><BR/>The big clue, to me, comes from the fact that you mention the intesection of "17th and T". There is no directional. This strongly suggests a location on the west side, T Street, having no eastside counterpart, would have no directional. The only place on the westside where that would be possible in those days would be what would be today north of Burnside, and T Street was renamed to NW Thurman St. 17th St would be properly called "17th St North", but the "north" suffix may have been elided because saying "17th and T" told the local all they needed to know, and people tend to use the short form whenever they can.<BR/><BR/>We still do that today. For instance, if I say "39th and Powell", locals know that means "SE" without my having to add it. "82nd and Sandy"...same thing, a local would add "NE" in thier mind. I bet that, in 1893, if someone said "17th & T" they know that it was "17th St North" without having to be told; it's the only place those two streets would have crossed.<BR/><BR/>So, bottom line, and pending further investigation, I'd say that the location you specified to me would today be NW 17th Avenue and Thurman Street. This would be in ZIP code 97209.<BR/><BR/>Today that's an industrial area transitioning into a retail/office/residential area. On the NW corner is a light industrial building that housed a cabinetmaker up until recently and at one time was a corner tavern; on the NE corner is a 6-story office building which at one time housed a tire distrubutor; on the SE corner is a bistro that not so long ago was a small machine parts company, and on the SW corner is Premier Tool and Die, which is apparently still a going concern. Most likely, the building your grandparent's residence was razed many years ago to make way for industrial development.<BR/><BR/>Feel free to contact me by email (or follow up if you prefer) if you have any other questions.Samuel John Kleinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00514541030057763303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7189482.post-1122396946296235002005-07-26T09:55:00.000-07:002005-07-26T09:55:00.000-07:00Mr. Klien - interesting blog that I have been foll...Mr. Klien - interesting blog that I have been following because we hope to retire in Portland to be near the kids --<BR/>Anyhow, your reference to maps piqued my interest. My father's birth certificate - 1893- shows that his parents lived at 17th and T - would that now be 17th and Tillamuck?<BR/>Thanks, Chris Jones, Wheaton, Illinoischjajoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17046851850931253657noreply@blogger.com